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	<title>Comments on: Heads-up to foreigners: &#8220;racism in China&#8221; is a cross-cultural conversation landmine</title>
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	<link>http://chinahopelive.net/2009/05/03/heads-up-to-foreigners-racism-in-china-is-a-cross-cultural-conversation-landmine</link>
	<description>A cross-cultural adventure with the personal side of China</description>
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		<title>By: Al Jensen</title>
		<link>http://chinahopelive.net/2009/05/03/heads-up-to-foreigners-racism-in-china-is-a-cross-cultural-conversation-landmine/comment-page-1#comment-8125</link>
		<dc:creator>Al Jensen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 12:41:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinahopelive.net/?p=3283#comment-8125</guid>
		<description>Without being too much of a national chauvinist, I would say that the average Chinese person would face less open racism in the United States, (and Canada) than in Europe.

For one, people of Asian descent in America are viewed as the &quot;model minority&quot;, which is problematic in itself (a model for whom?), but nevertheless still positive. Asians have a reputation for hard work, traditional family values, group-empowering decision making, etc. etc. - and while that is certainly a monolithic conception of what it means to be &quot;Asian&quot;, it does capture some of what has made a number of east Asian societies very successful over the past twenty years or so. In fact, as I understand it &quot;Asians&quot; are more successful on average in the United States than &quot;white&quot; people.

Secondly, there has been a longstanding historical presence of Asian groups in the United States, and while they certainly were not treated fairly, they are an accepted and familiar presence. There are Asians in the United States whose families have been in the country for more than a century, Asians count as a fixed and integral part of the nation&#039;s history and recent Asian immigrants have an established precedence for claiming full status not only legally, but culturally as well.

Thirdly, there is a culture of immigration, by which I mean there are no &quot;native&quot; groups, other than the indigenous groups that were mostly wiped out by the European settlers. So no one ethnic group (other than the natives) has the rightful claim to North America more than any other group, and the fact that the land was basically stolen undermines any sort of &quot;we were here first&quot; claim. 

Finally, there is a long history of racial violence in the United States, which until recently was mostly one sided - &quot;whites&quot; committing violence against &quot;non-whites&quot;. That has changed, and I think everyone has learned the importance of, if nothing else, keeping your mouth shut.

All of this is important not just for Chinese people who are immigrating to Canada or the US, but also those who are just temporarily studying or working there, since it is not possible to immediately distinguish between an American of Chinese descent and a Chinese person in America.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Without being too much of a national chauvinist, I would say that the average Chinese person would face less open racism in the United States, (and Canada) than in Europe.</p>
<p>For one, people of Asian descent in America are viewed as the &#8220;model minority&#8221;, which is problematic in itself (a model for whom?), but nevertheless still positive. Asians have a reputation for hard work, traditional family values, group-empowering decision making, etc. etc. &#8211; and while that is certainly a monolithic conception of what it means to be &#8220;Asian&#8221;, it does capture some of what has made a number of east Asian societies very successful over the past twenty years or so. In fact, as I understand it &#8220;Asians&#8221; are more successful on average in the United States than &#8220;white&#8221; people.</p>
<p>Secondly, there has been a longstanding historical presence of Asian groups in the United States, and while they certainly were not treated fairly, they are an accepted and familiar presence. There are Asians in the United States whose families have been in the country for more than a century, Asians count as a fixed and integral part of the nation&#8217;s history and recent Asian immigrants have an established precedence for claiming full status not only legally, but culturally as well.</p>
<p>Thirdly, there is a culture of immigration, by which I mean there are no &#8220;native&#8221; groups, other than the indigenous groups that were mostly wiped out by the European settlers. So no one ethnic group (other than the natives) has the rightful claim to North America more than any other group, and the fact that the land was basically stolen undermines any sort of &#8220;we were here first&#8221; claim. </p>
<p>Finally, there is a long history of racial violence in the United States, which until recently was mostly one sided &#8211; &#8220;whites&#8221; committing violence against &#8220;non-whites&#8221;. That has changed, and I think everyone has learned the importance of, if nothing else, keeping your mouth shut.</p>
<p>All of this is important not just for Chinese people who are immigrating to Canada or the US, but also those who are just temporarily studying or working there, since it is not possible to immediately distinguish between an American of Chinese descent and a Chinese person in America.</p>
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		<title>By: eight</title>
		<link>http://chinahopelive.net/2009/05/03/heads-up-to-foreigners-racism-in-china-is-a-cross-cultural-conversation-landmine/comment-page-1#comment-7866</link>
		<dc:creator>eight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Oct 2009 14:45:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinahopelive.net/?p=3283#comment-7866</guid>
		<description>First of I have to emphasise there is racism. Second discussing it in this country in my own opinion is a waste of time they will never get it (understand it). It took the u.s much blood shed and discussion to make it a major issue there but look at the state of race relations there today. I&#039;ve been denied a job in this country simply because i was black. In a city like Shanghai many blacks who have stayed long enough and get to know the Chinese well are not all that free in public because Chinese are especially sensitive towards blacks and many just look down on blacks. And when I say black I don&#039;t mean Obama black I mean staright out of Africa black. If anyone says there is no racism in China they should be go choke on a...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First of I have to emphasise there is racism. Second discussing it in this country in my own opinion is a waste of time they will never get it (understand it). It took the u.s much blood shed and discussion to make it a major issue there but look at the state of race relations there today. I&#8217;ve been denied a job in this country simply because i was black. In a city like Shanghai many blacks who have stayed long enough and get to know the Chinese well are not all that free in public because Chinese are especially sensitive towards blacks and many just look down on blacks. And when I say black I don&#8217;t mean Obama black I mean staright out of Africa black. If anyone says there is no racism in China they should be go choke on a&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: deadair</title>
		<link>http://chinahopelive.net/2009/05/03/heads-up-to-foreigners-racism-in-china-is-a-cross-cultural-conversation-landmine/comment-page-1#comment-7137</link>
		<dc:creator>deadair</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 10:53:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinahopelive.net/?p=3283#comment-7137</guid>
		<description>because, out of sheer laziness, we westerners tend to lump chinese as a race, japanese as another race, korean etc etc...

we tend to not even realize that they are all part of the same &quot;race&quot; and the ethnicities are what&#039;s different

then, ethnicities are a whole other bag of worms

examples... 56 officially recognised ethnicities in China, but we all know there&#039;s more (do we? how many of us realized this before we came over?)

how many white folks in Nor/Am really are connected with their roots? a person with scots roots... are you a gael or a pict?

all i am saying i guess is...  what is racism? race? ethnicity? religion? culture?

we do pic on the locals for their seeming racism, but in all fairness, the ethnic groups pretty much keep to themselves with very little integration. and the majority of folks here have no real contact with other folks from other places. 

we were lucky we grew up in multicultural environments, that we can gain this insight to help us adjust to new cultures, adjust, not integrate, or wholly accept. 

all we can do is, be patient. have some conversations and lead by example.

to stereotype, i believe that most chinese folks are quite polite and congenial, and they genuinely have an interest in other people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>because, out of sheer laziness, we westerners tend to lump chinese as a race, japanese as another race, korean etc etc&#8230;</p>
<p>we tend to not even realize that they are all part of the same &#8220;race&#8221; and the ethnicities are what&#8217;s different</p>
<p>then, ethnicities are a whole other bag of worms</p>
<p>examples&#8230; 56 officially recognised ethnicities in China, but we all know there&#8217;s more (do we? how many of us realized this before we came over?)</p>
<p>how many white folks in Nor/Am really are connected with their roots? a person with scots roots&#8230; are you a gael or a pict?</p>
<p>all i am saying i guess is&#8230;  what is racism? race? ethnicity? religion? culture?</p>
<p>we do pic on the locals for their seeming racism, but in all fairness, the ethnic groups pretty much keep to themselves with very little integration. and the majority of folks here have no real contact with other folks from other places. </p>
<p>we were lucky we grew up in multicultural environments, that we can gain this insight to help us adjust to new cultures, adjust, not integrate, or wholly accept. </p>
<p>all we can do is, be patient. have some conversations and lead by example.</p>
<p>to stereotype, i believe that most chinese folks are quite polite and congenial, and they genuinely have an interest in other people.</p>
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		<title>By: bert</title>
		<link>http://chinahopelive.net/2009/05/03/heads-up-to-foreigners-racism-in-china-is-a-cross-cultural-conversation-landmine/comment-page-1#comment-6868</link>
		<dc:creator>bert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Sep 2009 00:25:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinahopelive.net/?p=3283#comment-6868</guid>
		<description>Funny how people mention the USA but it seems most of the Chinese people I know who have gone to the US and Europe say that they have experienced more racism in Europe and were surprised that they had basically no harsh treatment in the US.

 I also find it interesting how some Chinese think of themselves as a race.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Funny how people mention the USA but it seems most of the Chinese people I know who have gone to the US and Europe say that they have experienced more racism in Europe and were surprised that they had basically no harsh treatment in the US.</p>
<p> I also find it interesting how some Chinese think of themselves as a race.</p>
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		<title>By: Chinosophy</title>
		<link>http://chinahopelive.net/2009/05/03/heads-up-to-foreigners-racism-in-china-is-a-cross-cultural-conversation-landmine/comment-page-1#comment-6843</link>
		<dc:creator>Chinosophy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Sep 2009 16:22:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinahopelive.net/?p=3283#comment-6843</guid>
		<description>Reminds me Sweden prior to immigration from non-scandinavian countries:

&quot;Naah, racism only exists in America.&quot;

How wrong we were.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reminds me Sweden prior to immigration from non-scandinavian countries:</p>
<p>&#8220;Naah, racism only exists in America.&#8221;</p>
<p>How wrong we were.</p>
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		<title>By: Rick in China</title>
		<link>http://chinahopelive.net/2009/05/03/heads-up-to-foreigners-racism-in-china-is-a-cross-cultural-conversation-landmine/comment-page-1#comment-6807</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick in China</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 10:45:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinahopelive.net/?p=3283#comment-6807</guid>
		<description>@Bryce:

There is a difference between mentioning RACE and mentioning NATIONALITY. Saying &quot;Xxx gets its first Brazillian yyyy player.&quot; is different than &quot;Xxx gets its first Mestizo yyyy player.&quot; One is a nationality, one is an ethnicity. &quot;Black&quot; could be an African American, a Nigerian, an Australian, just anyone with Black skin...and that&#039;s where a racial connotation comes in play. The point here is that if a Canadian team adopts someone from another country it implies pride in internationalism, yet if a team adopts someone from a particular &#039;race&#039; and points it out, it&#039;s implying that &quot;Canadian&quot; = &quot;White&quot;, segregation based on color not nationality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Bryce:</p>
<p>There is a difference between mentioning RACE and mentioning NATIONALITY. Saying &#8220;<acronym title="Xxx">   </acronym> gets its first Brazillian yyyy player.&#8221; is different than &#8220;<acronym title="Xxx">   </acronym> gets its first Mestizo yyyy player.&#8221; One is a nationality, one is an ethnicity. &#8220;Black&#8221; could be an African American, a Nigerian, an Australian, just anyone with Black skin&#8230;and that&#8217;s where a racial connotation comes in play. The point here is that if a Canadian team adopts someone from another country it implies pride in internationalism, yet if a team adopts someone from a particular &#8216;race&#8217; and points it out, it&#8217;s implying that &#8220;Canadian&#8221; = &#8220;White&#8221;, segregation based on color not nationality.</p>
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