Comments on: Learning Mandarin: Realistic Expectations

By: oohkuchi

oohkuchi — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 12:59:29 +0000

I’ve already droned on elsewhere about how hard it is read Chinese (never mind write it) but I feel again the need to puncture the ’speaking Chinese is easy’ myth. I just do not believe any of the guys who say this could handle a two-minute discussion in Mandarin on, say, the impact of Three Gorges Dam project. Yes, the grammar is relatively simple. It is not hard to say ‘qing zailai yige pijiu.’ But any in-depth discussion, on any topic, is a very, very tall order, as you will need some serious vocabulary, which most foreigners frankly lack, and, more than that, you will need to understand what the other guy is saying. Don’t snigger, for this is the biggest obstacle. I know a Japanese woman, married for thirty years to a Chinese, who still cannot understand CCTV news properly. Aural comprehension is EXTREMELY difficult, as in more difficult than Japanese, French, Spanish, German, Russian or just about any other major language. This reasons for this are described above; suffice it to say, this is the single biggest hurdle you, the aspirant Mandarin learner, are going to encounter. It takes decades.

By: Joel

Joel — Sat, 02 May 2009 05:16:17 +0000

I don’t think we’re fluent in any meaningful sense of the word. How accurate that chart is to someone’s experience depends a lot on the student. We aren’t among those specially-gifted language geniuses, but we’re self-motivated and put in the study time. The chart fits us, though Jessica’s Chinese is noticeably better than mine (everyone says so, without hesitation; they’ll tell me every single time we’re out together speaking Chinese).

The better students in our school kept pace with the chart; the lazy and/or less gifted students didn’t. Plus, the chart’s categories are a little mushy: “daily living” vs. “minimum work”? A guy with English that matches my Chinese could get a job in Vancouver, but not a good one, not one that centered on communication.

At the end of two years we could spend a day out or an evening all in Chinese. It also helped that our friends and neighbours were more used to us, our accents, and the need to simplify their vocabulary. We had enough grammar that we could start to spend more mental energy on ideas and incorporating new vocab, instead of worrying about how to put the sentences together.

I could work somewhere that only required me to have basic Chinese. And we’re talking oral communication here, not reading and writing. I type Chinese e-mails to friends, but character recognition (typing pinyin and selecting characters from a list) isn’t the same as character recall (handwriting). My Chinese e-mails are several paragraphs long, but I know there’s bad grammar and word choice involved, plus I consult dictionary software a lot.

After two years I feel we’ve got something significant to work with, and that there’s potential for the future. The road ahead still looks endlessly long, but there’s some significant mileage behind us.

By: Nedzer

Nedzer — Sat, 02 May 2009 04:11:32 +0000

I’d be really interested to hear what your Chinese language level is now. It’s too years since you wrote this post. Are you fluent or can you get about an have basic conversations?

Do tell. We need a follow up from two years of experience.
Do you still agree with what you believed 2 years ago about Mandarin aquistion?

By: Erica

Erica — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 09:24:59 +0000

Dear all,
claiming that learning Chinese is the same as learning some other western language…well, that is surely to me. However, I must say I learned more Chinese in a 6 weeks course in Beijing than in a 3 years course in Italy, at university level. Now, maybe I am exaggerating things a bit, but still. I am saying this because living in China for a while is absolutely necessary in order to learn a decent Chinese. That’s it.

By: Jeremy

Jeremy — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 05:17:35 +0000

This reminds me of the underwear
gnomes episode from South Park.

1. Study Chinese a loooong time
2. ???
3. Fluency! (or in the spirit of
South Park, make money!)

Totally agree that it takes that
long to get to real fluency as
you’ve defined it here and
elsewhere, Joel.

By: Joel

Joel — Fri, 15 Feb 2008 07:11:50 +0000

Thanks, Jonathan. I totally agree about the fun factor, and being willing to make a fool of yourself. There’s no avoiding it for people who want to actually progress.

I think Chinese learning expectations can be accurately described in different ways – it just depends on the perspective/measuring stick you’re using. From a foreigner-in-China perspective, we’re doing alright. But, like I said to Albert above, if I think of the immigrants in Vancouver that I grew up around and imagine them having the equivalent level of English, then suddenly our Chinese doesn’t look so hot. I think both measurements are legitimate: the first is more helpful and encouraging for us beginner language students, but the second is more ultimately accurate for people who want to live and work in another language and culture.